Topic: New Lyrics Idea

[blackrose]

So the other day I was reading the Necrominicon and about Kingu and various things then the next day I was reading philosophy and I thought every time I pick up an occult book I read about Therion lyrics. Even though most of this occult stuff other than being mysterious seems to be nonsense in my experience. I don't know of anyone who has said a few words then summoned a demon, drew a symbol on the ground then the demon obeys his every command. I've had a lot of strange experiences and use some aspects of the occult but most of it is pretty silly. Like Swedenborg for example. But really philosophy is more useful, more academic and more facinating in my opinion. Nor am I aware of any bands that have used it for lyrical themes. Think of how amazing Neitzsch would be in a song.

This isn't even a good summary of it, but if you take Plato's allegory of the cave (i cite the summary from wikipedia) it is just as mysterious and facinating as say some quack job (like Aleister Crowley or something) who thinks he's the reincarnation of a God (which despite what Chris may claim is not college level material- they don't teach that  kind of stuff in college- philosophy they do):
The Allegory of the Cave, also commonly known as Myth of the Cave, Metaphor of the Cave, The Cave Analogy, Plato's Cave or the Parable of the Cave, is an allegory used by the Greek philosopher Plato in his work The Republic to illustrate "our nature in its education and want of education". (514a) The allegory of the cave is written as a fictional dialogue between Plato's teacher Socrates and Plato's brother Glaucon, at the beginning of Book VII (514a–520a).

Plato imagines a group of people who have lived chained in a cave all of their lives, facing a blank wall. The people watch shadows projected on the wall by things passing in front of a fire behind them, and begin to ascribe forms to these shadows. According to Plato, the shadows are as close as the prisoners get to seeing reality. He then explains how the philosopher is like a prisoner who is freed from the cave and comes to understand that the shadows on the wall are not constitutive of reality at all, as he can perceive the true form of reality rather than the mere shadows seen by the prisoners.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

I think it would be more facinating, more intellectual, and just great lyrics material! Maybe not Plato or Neitzche but just some form of real philosophy. I will resurect this topic periodically. I just think it's a great insight. If anybody knows any band who has done such I'd like to check them out.

I do find Sumerian mythology facinating though. I do think a lot of Therion lyrics have great themes. I guess the other thought would be more exploration of the Sumerian Language or Classical Greek language, Latin, even Egyptian. These are also facinating, just the feeling the different languages have.

[deathmetalpat]

So the other day I was reading the Necrominicon

Which verison did you read?I read the one by Simon in one reading and had really strange and cool dreams.I know this supposed to be a kind on Chaos Magic sort of thing but still liked the book any way. as for Mr. Crowley ,I think he just got carried away with himself ,he might have thought he was controlling the World if he was linked in with a current or two.Everyone problably goes threw a stage like this who is famous.Just the ego gone wild or something Kenneth Grant thinks of Crowley as some sort of secertary who just wrote down and distributed infromation but not understanding it fully.

[blackrose]

Most occult books and such seem full of mostly non-sense. An intelligent person can glean a basic understanding of magic from them. Advanced magick is hidden. Taught to initiates or along family lines. It would be dangerous to put some of it in a book anyway. So the books that are published always have false information and such, well almost always. Most of it seems like non-sense to me but I guess it's good that way to confuse fools. Yet that's why I'm not much interested in such "occult" things.

The real power lies primarily in mathematics and natural sciences and such. I always see uneducated drug addicts who are failures in life who think they are insanely powerful because they read some occult books. There is far more power to gain refining your mind through logic, self dicipline, etc. Much magick is based on math anyway.

But the Necromicon, not sure what version I read. I've never had any strange dreams or anything from reading occult books.

[deathmetalpat]

Crowley himself put out alot of false information in his books and inside jokes and throwing people off course is in alot of occult books.The idea of chaos magic is that true magic is hidden as mysticism.They are some very cool crazy things my favorite is "Discordianism" (Robert Anton Wilson very cool dude) but yes advanced math and stuff like string and M therory and thinking upon these things are better than any books.Also the belief that aliens were contacting anyone would mean that that had to be close to earth or below it because the transmisions would be too old to be off any use if they were too far away,unless we are just living out a program from ancient times and our world will colapse upon itself and a new one will take it's place.

[Hatecraft]

The real power lies primarily in mathematics and natural sciences and such. I always see uneducated drug addicts who are failures in life who think they are insanely powerful because they read some occult books. There is far more power to gain refining your mind through logic, self dicipline, etc. Much magick is based on math anyway.

For once I agree with Rosie here. If science couldn't comprehend magic/magick mankind would have to reformulate it until it did.

[blackrose]

Well for whatever reason when I was young I've had countless strange experiences. I saw the future. I felt someone tap me on the shoulder and turn around no one is there. Heard things. Felt the presense of something around. All this compelled me to search for answers, thus I've been into the occult since a young age. I haven't done a lot of spell casting and such but I've done a lot of reading and mainly seeking to understand things. I have actually in my posession some pretty powerful magick. It is real.

Media and even schools and such are full of a lot of lies. Not only about magick but also political and such. Knowledge is power. Much like money. Schools mainly dumb you down. They teach the sheep. Justl ike Chrstinaity their emphasis is on parroting back what you are told, believing authority and so on. I hate debating with people who always say "cite your sources" as if the government says it then it makes it true but if I say it it isn't true. It's all about obeying authority to them and that's how htey are tuaght to think. But if I say 2+2= 4 it should be self evident. You shouldn't need a source or authority figure to think for you. There are two kinds of people in this world mainly: leaders and followers. Intelligent and stupid.


For a long time in our society we have had a hidden side. The whole point of this hidden side is that it is earned. It is elite. If I tell you 2+2=5 maybe half my students will believe me. I will pat them on the head and say you are right. The other half will say it equals 4.  I will pat them on the head and tell them they are right as well. So education is full of half truths as are media etc. But the occult is hidden everywhere in the open. The intelligent can understand it often and spot it. But mainly it is extremely hard unless you are taken into a group that teaches you. Myself I just figured it out myself but oddly I think these spirits around me have something to do with it. I never would have even thought about this stuff withotu them.

It really is common sense once you understand it. It's like prayer. It's just something you can use to help you in life. It can't do the impossible. You can't make it rain money. There needs to be conduits or possibilit8ies for it to work in regular life so it works in compliment to your normal actions. Then there is energy work and such and meditation- it helps your mind and body be healtheir so you can suceed in life.

The best source for "occult" stuff would be Asian sources. Learn about Chi work and all that. Over there it is less hidden and more respected tradition. Though even here there are levels of knowledge that are not made public. It's like college you don't teach someone graduate level courses until first they complete undergrad. But I think many occultists would be disapointed at the truth. Maybe others very happy. You meditate and you have less stress and think clearer. You pray and it helps the possibilites to work in your favor. Part of it is very msteryous in that it almost runs counter to logic, but in a way science does as well. How does a TV work? It almost seems magickal.

With most of what I would call "magick" it is hard to measure scientifically because it doesn't have preidctable results. How can you prove that you got that job because of a prayer or spell? For science the results have to be predictable and the same. With spirituality we can tell a difference in our lives and our selves caused by it but results vary and are complicated.

A lot of other "occult" stuff is really scientific. Learning simple psychology and other techniques to get you ahead in life. There are spirits and other forces in the world but I don't know much about commanding them or working with them. It doesn't seem logical that they would just obey our commands. And because they are behind a viel so to speak, like in another dimension it's hard for them to have much ifnluence over here exept through knowledge, that is contact with the human mind. It is like you are in a room and on the other side of the wall is another room, and you can hear voices whispering on the other side bu you can't reach out and touch them. The oices are distorted. For the most part there is only indirect and unreliable contact. I would fear that most people would become manipulated by these forces I don't see much gain with them. For example with the quija board- they typically just lie to you. I mean there is something to it but how useful is it? I think many people are taught to pursue these dead ends, these useless forms of magick.

Anyway Kabbalah is based on numerology, mathmatics and such. But it is a form of sympathetic magick. All things in the world connected in some way. They use math to connect to certain things. You draw out certain number squares and all that to bring a certain spirit into your life (that is to bring wealth, friendhsp etc. each square having a different vibration bringing in different things). By harnessing the seven spirits of God through magickal talismans I've found that to be very powerful magick. Frankly though I don't like to eompower people who aren't smart enough to empower themselve- otherwise they may use the power irresponsibily.

Math though is the key. Practicing math makes you smarter. It helps you with logic and seeing the realtionships of all thigns- the underlying truths. I guess that's why they've dumbed down the math curriculum in school. They want toweaken people. But then math also has practical uses like if you are good at math you will be good with money. Good at accounting which relates to running a business. If you are good at logic then you would be good with legal matters- arguing and persuading people. Though people are ilogical in a lot of ways that's another skill

[blackrose]

So many spelling errors. Sorry. Once I type something long the screen does weird stuff. I guess cuz I'm using e-exploerer.
I guess the other dimension is being connected. Most people have some spiritual yearning inside. Some need to connect with something greater than themselves. Some find this in Christianity others find it by studying mysterious occult things and doing weird rituals. Human curiousity, a desire for self improvement and power and so on. It all depends on your motivation. If you simply want to improve your life the key would be simple meditation, simple prayer or spell work, and then by far education in logical and rational things while admitting there is a spiritual side that is not fully understood. Yet if you are compelled by curiosity or need then you will study the mysterious in depth. It nothing you can ever fully master or comprehend, which maybe appeals to some. I think the appeal to others is that they can pretend to be an expert in something which has little demands. I mean if I go to college I have to prove I am good at something by taking tests and being compared to peers. As an occultist I can live in a fantasy world much like someone obsessed with lord of the rings or something. That's what turns me off about the "occult" in mainstream. It's so based on fantasy and under accomplishing and child like things.

[Loke]

  I swear Rosy, Im interested in some of your topics , but mate, it's just a drag to read your epic posts, with all due respect.

  yo yo yo

[blackrose]

I understand. It is the same when I e-mail. Not much I can do about it. Most people aren't used to reading. According to the United States Department of Education some 47% of Americans are barely literate yet would rate their reading skills as "good". Personally I read all day but even I can get exausted reading long e-mails etc. but once you get used to it then it's a lot easier. It's just we don't live in a real literate society where people read long posts, books etc. on average. And the computer screen makes it even worse- more eye strain! It's a skill. You should see some of the long e-mails going back and forth between people I write!

[deathmetalpat]

Hey I am from Americas and have a good petty eucatudion!please stops thuis Rosys with the breaking of Amerciacause!

[blackrose]

It is everywhere in the world. People are by and large uneducated failures in life somehow convinced that they are geniuses and that they deserve respect, wealth etc. The liberal culture causes people to dumb down and weaken themselves. To start improving yourself first you must realize you aren't a god. Realistically look at your flaws and that of others around you and begin to improve upon them. Most people on the forum would be the exeption compared to average Americans etc.

In regards to long e-mails etc. I hear this complaint a lot. It directly relates to low attention span (caused in part by TV and such) and low literacy. Most Americans for example are literate- they can read a sentence, menu, sign- spell their name etc. But they are barely literate- they cannot read a couple long paragraphs and answer correctly in regards to the meaning or statements. This is called "barely literate". I had some similar problems at times- but once you challenge yourself to do better it becomes easier to read long posts etc. once you get used to it and force yourself to pay attention in various ways.
http://education-portal.com/articles/Grim_Illiteracy_Statistics_Indicate_Americans_Have_a_Reading_Problem.html
American illeteracy link. America is one of the most literate countries by the way and we aren't literate lol

I learned almost nothing from public school. I am used to reading mainly from doing it on my own, though college of course is different you read a lot! I never learned anything beyond the most basic math. I think we were doing 6th grade level material in 12th grade. People graduated that couldn't read and were told they were special and none of their failures are their fault and that it is someone elses responsibility to take care of them. When I was taught these values it caused me to fail in life. Only when I educated myself have I started bettering myself.

Take Haiti: they were hit by a mild earth quake. It caused massive death because none of their buildings were built properly to code. Earth quakes like this happen all the time in California with no deaths or major damage. Instead of blaming the people for not building better buildings, the government for not enforcing codes etc. the article in Time magazine I believe it was  is titled "Why Does God Hate Haiti". The article goes on to ask how God could let something like this happen to them. I find it silly. Criticism is healthier than praise so long as it isn't untrue or meant to curse someone.

There are realy two mentalities people have 1) that of the slave- to be totally irresponsible and expect others to take care of you "how could the government/God/my neighbor etc. let this happen to me! Some authority figure guide me and save me! It's not my fault! I deserve life and wealth just for existing!" liberalism/marxism. Or you can have the master mentality "I will take care of myself. I will be responsible for my own life and seek to meet minimal standards and self improvement. I don't deserve life, wealth or anything. Suffering is part of life, but I can earn something better if the opportunity is there. I must prove my worth"

[Loke]

 i am a very educated lad, i have a masters degree and read more than 12 books a year, more i guess, and still find your posts epic.

  yo yo yo

[blackrose]

Strange... some things can't be boiled down to a single sentence.

I'm in College, I read a lot of books etc. and as I said I still found it rough to read some long posts online etc. but with effort I was able to focus better. I guess you just don't find it as neccessary or interesting as the other material and would just rather boil it down to the highlights. Similarly I read a lot of material online- some of it that intrests me less I just skim it. In other words its a skill reading long posts.