Topic: Therion Live performance

[Basileus Taos]

Hi,

[introduction]
I wasn't really sure whether this belonged into the Touring subsection.
However, I've been a huge Therion fan for many years and saw them on some gigs. I really liked every one of the shows.
Recently I could finally buy The Miskolc Experience and Celebrators of Becoming - great.
[/introduction]
[question]
Now my question is, what is live when Therion plays and what is from tape? I watched the Mexico show from 2004 yesterday and some of the songs (especially from Wine of Aluqah on) really sounded so much like on CD I was wondering which parts of these songs are actually played by the band.
[/question]
[more stuff]
The problem might be that I myself play the guitar - but very badly. Thus I cannot imagine someone playing so well. On the other hand, these guys have been playing their instruments for years as professionals, so they might be able to perform so well on stage.
[/more stuff]

This is not meant as an insult, I'm just curious.

[Jacob]

It's simple enough - every instrument which you hear but is not represented on the stage is usually recorded unless the keyboard player is doing some of it. The keyboard is quite a joker

As for the guitar, I'm sure you know that it is all real

[Basileus Taos]

Yes, the thing about the instruments not being on stage coming from tape was quite obvious.
What about the singing?

[kinjarb037]

some choir parts also come from the same dat tape. 3-4 singers alone would not make it.

it's been so since the theli tour afaik.

[Basileus Taos]

Ah yes, that would be it.
This was actually what got me confused in the first place.

[blackrose]

Just from the sound of COB it sounds like the choir on stage isn't in the sound. The choir sounds 90% pre-recorded. CoB has a real live feel and sound. It sounds like they set up some mics and just recorded everything. That's what I like about that album the mic'ed sound. Miskolc has no tapes and next to no editing afterwards. There may be three or four guitars at once but none of it is taped. That's why Mats and others are playing guitar live plus the two other guitarist. Yeah they are pretty amazing.
 Live Gothic seems the guitars were directly recorded rather than mic'ed. Deeper fuller sound, but loses the live feel. Plus sounds edited. Sounds a lot like a studio album and less of a live feel.

CoB they took the best songs from two different shows. So no they don't play that good, but close. But damn look at alll the youtube videos therion is one of the best live acts out there. Now we must see how the new line up sounds.

[Romuald]

some choir parts also come from the same dat tape. 3-4 singers alone would not make it.

I agree but it doesn't seem that they used choirs on tape with the Live Gothic show and this one isn't bad at all. It's understandable because the voices then don't really melt like in a choir so adding a choir on tape behind would have made it weird.
I think it's not necessary to try to make a 1:1 copy of a song live. For example, if I recall correctly there wasn't the synth-sound when they played Melez on CoB (DVD 1) but instead it was replaced by the guitar.

Just from the sound of COB it sounds like the choir on stage isn't in the sound.

Yeah I've got that feeling too .

Beside that, something funny about the Mexican show on the CoB DVD (#1), at the end of Iron Fist we can hear Mats saying "Thank you", but he's just holding a bottle of water .

[blackrose]

lol  oh yeah I know what you mean. When you watch the DVD it doesn't seem to match up with the sound but it sort of does so its hard to figure what exactly is wrong. Then they flash some footage where mats is wearing a different shirt and such I guess from the first show but they do it so fast it's like did I just see that or was it my imagination?

I don't really think they edited the sound on CoB I just think that was the video not lining up but who knows. I guess the least editing is the miskolc show.

Yeah they change parts of the songs. The anniversary edition they have very few tapes its mostly all live keyboards and everything live and a lot of things in the song changed. Live Gothic though and even Celebrators I can hear vocal over dubbing. It can't possibly be live. It's either on the tapes or edited after the recording. I would think they will do it also on the anniversary. I can't imagine why they used only 1 female singer. Though I guess that other female does back up vocals. Though lori is incredible she can sound like many different singers at once.

[nomoteticus]

Beside that, something funny about the Mexican show on the CoB DVD (#1), at the end of Iron Fist we can hear Mats saying "Thank you", but he's just holding a bottle of water .

Mats does not need/ A microphone/ His voice is f*cking / Powerfuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul!

[Eldo]

Its not possible to recond a concert so perfetcly so it would go straight on dvd, is t? I guess not. Althouth, I prefer more live sound the more clear/perfect sound, i think its nice if the sound is raw and unperfect.. Both COB and LG does give me "live" feeling, but LG has lot more live energy imho. And yeah, choir parts on COB sound like mixed - recored live vocals + prerecorded. Anyway, too much editing = bad 

[Aramen]

Mats does not need/ A microphone/ His voice is f*cking / Powerfuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul!

Hah, he's got a point!

[blackrose]

yeah I like all the live albums they are my favorite ones. Though I expected the live with symphony would be better than it was. I wish they would have rehearsed more or whatever. Maybe they could do a future show with a smaller live symphony like a keyboardist and a string quartet and small choir. Because I did like the symphony parts re-written and not on tape and such. Not to mention the covers. So yeah I like live gothic too they play much better on live gothic than CoB sounds more experienced.

[Frenkie]

Mats does not need/ A microphone/ His voice is f*cking / Powerfuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuul!

What does that remind me off .......
Maybe Tenacious D?

[EvanSawyer]

Maybe the parts that don't match up with the CoB dvd image and audio are due to the dvd being a composite of two separate shows that took place in Mexico City one being the day after the other.
I am too lazy to look this info up right now but that's a piece of info that either is stated somewhere on the booklet or contents of the dvd or someone told me so.
So the footage from mats holding the water may be from the show where he didn't say thank you at the end of the song. and the audio would be from the show he did say thank you at the end of the song.

[Romuald]

So the footage from mats holding the water may be from the show where he didn't say thank you at the end of the song. and the audio would be from the show he did say thank you at the end of the song.

I thought of that explanation too, but what a strange idea  .

[nomoteticus]

It would be nice to have 2 tracks for the same concert (like there are many dubbed languages on DVD-movies) - the "100% live" recording and the "studio mixed" recording, so we can choose between them. I'm sure it would fit on a 8 GB DVD-ROM, and it would be quite the experience.

[blackrose]

But you can pretty much watch the live unedited stuff on youtube. Maybe they could add some of the youtube videos on the release. But I wonder if they are doing any filming of the "making of" sitra ahra. Live Gothic didn't have squat for special features. I like seeing how they make and record the stuff and interviews and such.

I always thought they could release stuff on mp3 and videos on mpeg like bonus material so that it fits so they don't need 8 discs or whatever. That's like nightwish and stuff has bonus videos to play on your computer when you buy the CD.

Like for example on the Lemuria/Sirius b tour they played crowning of atlantis and some other songs they could have recorded the ones that weren't played on the main concert and put them as mp3 "bonus" material on the release. This way I could get more live songs in my collection and the cost to release would be practically nothing other than the expense of recording it, which really even the youtube videos are good quality. I made an mp3 out of some of the youtube therion live stuff and they were pretty good sounding but I've lost them all. Like I had midgard live on my mp3 player.