Topic: Communism

[Fallen Seraph]

I am a Utopian communist and i am just wondering what fellow therion fans think of it. (note i hate stalinism which is what the USSR was during the cold war).

[Thor]

It has no right to exist. (that's the reason why it is called Utopia, hehe)

[Fallen Seraph]

Why shouldn't it exist if we can learn to measure the world not by wealth but by the skill and mind of the people. It is the next step past democracy which even though i am communist i also agree with except for the amount of need for material wealth.

[Franz]

It won't work, because man like all other animals wants to have his own territory and his own stuff, and if he can he will try to take some of the neighbours stuff. Nothing you can do about natures rules.

[Fallen Seraph]

Though what you say is correct i still hold faith in that man will rise above such basic wants. Which is the basic reason why i am a utopian communist not just a communist but for for future responses this is to anyone reading but for communism in general not just the type i agree with. Thanks

[Thor]

Read "The Animal Farm" by George Orwell. Everything at the beginning of this book had to be so beautifull, but look at the end. FranZ has right, these all Marksists ideas are impossible to come true due to human nature. There always will be someone who want to have more than others and take as much as it's possible.

[Daemon]

It is very hard to say what is human nature and what it is not. What you guys are calling human nature is just the way we were raised to be. And saying it is human nature is just what the neo-liberal ideology wants you to do.
 Marxism is indeed an utopia, but Marx wasn

[Daemon]

And I deserve the Nobel for that speech.

[Baphomet]

Well said Demon!
 
 Communism may not have succeded yet, but different approaches to socialism have proven more "marketable" to capitalist societies, such as state-funded healthcare or welfare. Of course there are problems with these, but you can't deny that such things would not exist unless people had a degree of non-selfishness, which, by the logic of other posters, would also be part of 'human nature'  :p

[Kandrian]

communism was a healthy response to relevant social problems. now, it would only destroy human creativity and freedom of acting. But some communist ideas have not lost their relevance, and for good reasons.
 
 I'm a left-leaning democrat, supporting
 ideas of social democracy and alterglobalism.
 And I do hold the neo-liberal ideas to be the end of history of state and ideas. We shall yet see many forms of wealth distribution, But not communism in it's current (idealistic) form.

[Homer]

Originally posted by Fallen Seraph:
  I am a Utopian communist and i am just wondering what fellow therion fans think of it. (note i hate stalinism which is what the USSR was during the cold war).

What do you know about USSR?  

[Skarek]

Originally posted by Dark Angel:
   

Originally posted by Fallen Seraph:
  I am a Utopian communist and i am just wondering what fellow therion fans think of it. (note i hate stalinism which is what the USSR was during the cold war).

What do you know about USSR?    [/b]

Touch

[Franz]

Originally posted by Baphomet:
 Of course there are problems with these, but you can't deny that such things would not exist unless people had a degree of non-selfishness, which, by the logic of other posters, would also be part of 'human nature'   :p  

In case you haven't been thinking about it, all things man does, is part of human nature. The fact that is not considered by most people is, that human beings are in fact mammals, which is a group of animals, which suggests that human will act the same as any other animal: choosing the option he thinks that will suit him best. Sometimes that means being social (human is group oriented, like cows, chimps), sometimes it means being selfish, which is seen in any form of mammal society.
 
 Nothing you can do about it. Politics is just an result of these nature and the ability to reason.

[fuckingfranz]

Ever heard of libertarian communism? Or anarchism? Thats very utopian, but what a paradise we would have if it worked out.
 
 To Daemon:  :bow:

[Svartkladd]

Nothing is perfect.
 
 It is also important who and how.
 If you know what I mean, it will be clear enough to understand that not only the main idea of any Utopia is dangerous for society, but the ways of achieving it could be so different... and results could be so tragic... And, of course, it depends on people who rule the system... In USSR, since first years of revolution, it was clear for all clever people, that this idea ends tragically... Because of all Stalin's crimes Russia have lost almost the same amount of people, as during the Second World War, and it's not a secret...  Yes, I know that many other nations think that Russia deserves such fate... I don't know... But I think that no one deserves to be blamed for the country where he or she lives. Such things (like genocide of any nation) should be a tragedy for the whole world, and not a "God's punishment" of  "that bad country" or stuff like that...
 
 I also think that bright people with pure minds have a chance to realize almost everything, but... It is inside us, we are making our own fate...
 
 P.S. (Down to Earth       ) I hope that any attemps of "building" a society of communism will fail without any violance. Yes, they will fail, because to achieve the communism we need one important thing... we need perfect people... huh... impossible.

[Thor]

Yea, good Post Scriptum.

[Svartkladd]

It's obvious  

[Homer]

Originally posted by Svartkladd:
 Nothing is perfect...etc.

OK. But don't forget that REAL democracy is impossible too! Where does it exist? In USA, in Great Britan? (  :upyours:    :upyours:    :upyours:  )

[Ymer]

Communism:
 
 TOTAL UTOPIA!!!!!

[Homer]

Originally posted by Ymer:
  Communism:
 
 TOTAL UTOPIA!!!!!

As the prefect democracy!  

[Franz]

As any pure kind of regime.

[Ymer]

Originally posted by Dark Angel:
   

Originally posted by Ymer:
  Communism:
 
 TOTAL UTOPIA!!!!!

As the prefect democracy!    [/b]

That

[Fallen Seraph]

I have to say though i am communist being the one who started this topic i do agree with what you say my political affilianced (sp) is what i would would be possible in our societies. So in the end i when i am able to vote being how i am only 14 will vote for the more socialist of the democratic perties in my country. But thank you for not just bashing communism my friend who is also a communist has been flamed and bashed to a great degree on this issue.

[Svartkladd]

Originally posted by Dark Angel:
   

Originally posted by Svartkladd:
 Nothing is perfect...etc.

OK. But don't forget that REAL democracy is impossible too! Where does it exist? In USA, in Great Britan? (       I've just told you my point of view about this subject, nothing more, nothing less...  

[nothingface]

there is no such thing as human nature
 communism is not an utopia

[Narethkraag]

Originally posted by nothingface:
  there is no such thing as human nature
 communism is not an utopia

And how will you prove that?

[Franz]

Originally posted by nothingface:
  there is no such thing as human nature

Basicly you are saying that human beings aren't any form of natural beings. Huge pile of shit! Human beings are incredibly opportunistic hunters/collectors. Now probably you'll say: Hey, that's year ago, but not for evolution. It's just a few years.
 
   

Originally posted by nothingface:
  communism is not an utopia

Truly it is. Communism needs a group that leads it, and that has resulted in a form of despotism every time we've seen it rising. Often having a communist government led to killing and banishing those who opposed the idea's of the communist party.
 
 But as Chris said elsewhere on the forum: "This is a music forum[...]"
 
 But also(mine again): As we have seen quite often, starting to discuss "the best regimes" leads to fighting or threatening.

[Daemon]

Humans have a very plastic behavior, and we can also create technologies to adapt to a new enviroment. Included in these technologies are relationships and social organizations, even thinking and language.
 This explains why we are not hunters anymore. It is true, at least for now, that we were stabilized as a species in this hunter/collectors relationship with the enviroment. We probably have a lot of stereotypical behaviors guiding our lives, but we are masters of adaptation.
 Humans can handle living in almost any enviroment.
 We should not forget that just by saying it is natural it means it

[Franz]

Originally posted by Daemon:
  We probably have a lot of stereotypical behaviors guiding our lives, but we are masters of adaptation.
 Humans can handle living in almost any enviroment.

So can cats. Probably even better and faster than humans.
 
 

Originally posted by Daemon:
  We should not forget that just by saying it is natural it means it

[Ahriman]

Communism sucks we had it here until 1990.